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The Mother came. Dr. Savoor also had called. NIRODBARAN (to DR. Savoor): When you give a homoeopathic medicine, how do you select it? By intuition? And how do you know that your intuition is correct? Page-27 DR. SAVOOR: Intuition by its very definition means something not obtained by logical reasoning; so it must be correct. NIRODBARAN (to Sri Aurobindo): You told me that Dr. Ramachandra uses mental intuition. So there must be various levels of intuition. SRI AUROBINDO: By mental intuition I mean that the intuition coming from above gets mixed with the mind. I don't say that mental intuition must be incorrect but because of the mixture it can't always be relied upon. There is also vital intuition, which very often gets mixed up with one's desires. NIRODBARAN: How is one to get intuition? By calmness of mind? SRI AUROBINDO: Calmness is not enough. The mind must become silent. NIRODBARAN: Then it will take a long time. SRI AUROBINDO: Can't say. It may take a short or a long time. NIRODBARAN: But it won't be possible to keep the silence until one has realised the Spirit. SRI AUROBINDO: One can train one's mind to be silent. Dr. Savoor took his leave and, as The Mother lapsed into meditation, we all tried to do the same. Then after she left about 7.00 p.m., we collected round Sri Aurobindo. He looked once or twice at Dr. Manilal. NIRODBARAN: Dr. Manilal is beaming today. DR. MANILAL: Couldn't meditate well, Sir, because I have lumbago. But I felt. some vibration at the back and felt happy. NIRODBARAN: That must be the Kundalini! DR. MANILAL: I don't believe in it. Is this vibration the Force, Sir? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. It was trying to cure your lumbago perhaps and the first sign was a little aggravation. (Laughter) You don't believe in the Kundalini? DR. MANILAL: No, Sir. SRI AUROBINDO: But you were telling us about your experience of ascent and descent.
DR. MANILAL: Was it an experience of the Kundalini? I didn't know it. (Laughter) But the Kundalini is not in the line of our Yoga and you haven't mentioned about it anywhere.
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PURANI: Oh yes he has, in Lights on Yoga. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. The Kundalini is, of course, a Tantric idea. The Shakti lying coiled in the Muladhara Chakra awakes, rises up and carries the consciousness upward, opening all the Chakras up to the Brahmarandhra and then meets the Brahman and after that the descent begins. The Tantric process is more technical. It is curious to see the action of the Force in some cases. Some feel as if a drilling were being done in the brain. Some can't keep the Force in: they sway from side to side, make peculiar sounds. I remember one practising Pranayama rigorously and making horrible sounds. I didn't hear of his getting any good results. Sometimes the Force raises up what lies below in order to be able to deal with it.
NIRODBARAN: The other day, while we were talking about poetry, you quoted some passages from the Veda. I would like to know how the Mantras in the Vedas and the Upanishads were composed. It seems they were actually heard by the Rishis. Is it an inner hearing? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it is an inner hearing. Sometimes one hears a line, or a passage, or even a whole poem; sometimes they simply come down. The best poetry is always written in that way. NIRODBARAN: I remember very well that line of mine, "A fathomless beauty in a sphere of pain," coming as if someone had whispered it into my ear. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite; that is the inner hearing. But occasionally one may be deceived. Inspiration from the lower planes also can come in an automatic way. NIRODBARAN: Oh yes. I have been deceived many times like that. Lines which came at once and automatically and which I thought high-class turned out quite ordinary by your remarks. SRI AUROBINDO: One writes wonderful poems in dreams, surrealist poems; but when they are written down on paper they seem worthless. Page-29 Even in a poet like Shakespeare, in whom I suppose, poetry always flowed, there are differences of inspiration. In the passage in Henry IV, invoking sleep, the three lines: With thou upon the high and giddy mist. Seal up the ship-boy's eyes and rock his brains. In the cradle of the rude imperious surge leap out strikingly from the rest. There is no doubt at all that they have descended from above without any interruption. Or look at that lyric of his, beginning "Take, O take those heap away".¹ the whole of it has come down from above. At this point of the conversation Dr. Manilal entered the room. Dr. Manilal asked Sri Aurobindo about his health. After some time The Mother came in and sat on the spare cot. DR. MANILAL (addressing The Mother) It is a sin to kill scorpions, bugs and mosquitoes? Somehow I can't kill bugs but I kill mosquitoes. THE MOTHER: Why because of the smell of bugs? DR. MANILAL: Probably. THE MOTHER: Put your question to Sri Aurobindo( smiling to Sri Aurobindo) When I first came here, I used to drive away mosquitoes by Yogic Force. Sri Aurobindo didn't approve of it. SRI AUROBINDO: Because you were making a friendship with them. DR. MANILAL: Sir, it is a sin to kill them? SRI AUROBINDO: What is sin? If you don't kill them, they will go and bite some other people and won't be a sin to you? DR. MANILAL: But they have life, Sir. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. they have - ¹Take O take those lips away, That so sweetly were foresworn: And those eyes break of day. Light that do misled the morn. But my kisses bring again, Bring again, Seals of love, but sealed in vain. sealed in vain. Measure for Measure, IV
Page-30 DR. MANILAL: And if one kills them - SRI AUROBINDO: Well, what happens? DR. MANILAL: One will be liable to sin. THE MOTHER: Plants also have life. You don't mean to say that a mosquito is more precious than a rose? You don't know perhaps how the plants feel. DR. MANILAL: I don't mean that we otherwise don't kill, say, when we breathe micro-organisms. THE MOTHER (smiling): Don't doctors kill? DR. MANILAL: Yes, Mother, but our killing isn't intentional. NIRODBARAN: It is said that the Jains hire people to feed bugs. DR. MANILAL: No, that's just a story. SRI AUROBINDO: At any rate I know a story that is historically true, in connection with the Jains. When Mahmud of Ghazni invaded India, he defeated a Jain king through the help of that king's brother. He imprisoned the king and put the brother on the throne and left the dethroned king in his charge. The brother didn't know what to do with the prisoner. Being a Jain, he couldn't kill him. So he got a pit dug below his throne and threw his prisoner there and covered up the pit with mud. As a result, the dethroned king died—but the brother didn't kill him! (Laughter) THE MOTHER: In order to be a true non-killing jain, one must be a Yogi. Then one can deal rightly with these animals and insects. DR. MANILAL: Yes, Mother. But is one justified in killing scorpions and snakes? SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? One must kill in self-defence. I don't mean that you must hunt them out and kill them. But when you see that they are endangering your life or those of others, you have every right to kill them. NIRODBARAN: People say that killing a dog or a cat is not so harmful as taking the life of a human being. Do you agree? The question was lost in a volley of other questions fired by some of the attendants. SRI AUROBINDO: Did you say that killing a dog or a cat is not so harmful as taking the life of a human being?
THE MOTHER: Nirodbaran seems to be a humanitarian. Page-31
SRI AUROBINDO: Life is life, whether in a cat or a dog or a man. There is no difference as regards that. The difference is a conception of human beings —for their own advantage perhaps. The Mother now departed. Then the talk shifted to homoeopathy, and everyone, including Dr. Savoor who happened to be present, started citing instances in favour of homoeopathy and mentioning its miraculous cures. It was said even to cure religious depression, anger, etc. SRI AUROBINDO: Anger, the scientists say, is due to secretions of the glands. Even love, according to them, is merely due to a secretion. (Half smiling) But can homoeopathy cure egoism? DR. Savoor: If it did, I should be the first to apply for the medicine. DR. MANILAL: The fact that you are conscious of egoism makes half the cure. Isn't that so. Sir? SRI AUROBINDO: Not necessarily. But it is the first step. NIRODBARAN: And what's the second? SRI AUROBINDO: To detach oneself from all these things. To think as if they belonged to the outer being or to someone else. As one goes on doing that, the Purusha or Soul gradually withdraws its sanction from the Prakriti or Nature, and the Prakriti loses its hold until finally a spiritual control takes place. But if one associates oneself with the Prakriti, then the Purusha becomes a slave to it, Anish. Rejection, of course, is a stronger means. One has to reject these things before they enter into one, as I did with the thoughts when I was at Baroda. This method is more powerful and the results too are quicker. There is also a mental control, but there it is the mind trying to control the vital being. The control is only partial and temporary. The thing is rather suppressed within and can come out on any opportunity. I have heard of a Yogi in Benares who was bathing in one of the ghats. In the next ghat a beautiful Kashmiri woman came to bathe. As soon as he saw her, he fell upon her and tried to outrage her. His was evidently a case of mental control. But sometimes, by Yoga, things which were not felt before come up. I have heard about it from many persons. In my own case, I saw anger coming up and possessing me. It was absolutely Page-32 uncontrollable when it came. I was very much surprised as to my own nature. Anger has always been foreign to it. At another time, while I was an under trial prisoner in Alipore, my anger would have led to a terrible catastrophe which luckily was avoided. Prisoners there had to wait outside for some time before entering the cells. As we were doing so the Scotch warder came and gave me a push. The young men around me became very excited and I did nothing, but I gave him such a look that he immediately fled and called the jailor. It was a communicative anger and all the young men rallied round to attack him. When the jailor who was rather a religious man arrived, the warder said I had given him an insubordinate look. The jailor asked me and I told him I had never been used to such treatment. He pacified the whole group and said while going, "We have each to bear our cross." But by this anger I don't mean the Rudrabhava which I have experienced a few times NIRODBARAN: Is Rudrabhava something like Ramakrishna's snake story? SRI AUROBINDO: Not at all. It is not at all a show of anger. It is something genuine—a violent severity against something very wrong. Anger one knows by its feeling and sensation. It rises from below, while Rudrabhava rises from the heart. I shall give you an instance. Once X became very violent, shouting at The Mother and shaking his fists at her. When I heard the shouting, a violent severity came down that was absolutely uncontrollable. I went out and said, "Who is shouting at The Mother? Who is shouting there?" As soon as X heard me, he became quiet. NIRODBARAN: X, I have been told, had a very violent temper.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. He was otherwise an earnest sadhak, became conscious of many things and did make some progress. But these fits used to come to him now and then. Some Asuric forces used to catch hold of him and he couldn't control himself. It is these forces that have made him fail in Yoga, for I hear that he doesn't have the attacks now outside. When he was in their grip, he couldn't see that he was in the wrong. He blamed me and The Mother, though we had been very lenient and considerate to him. After some time, he was able to recognise his fault and admit it and promise that he would never do it again. But again he would be swept away by the forces. Sometimes his vanity and self-esteem would come in the way of admitting his faults immediately. Page-33 That's the mistake. One must not justify one's wrong-doing. If one does that, it comes again and makes it difficult for one to get rid of it. NIRODBARAN: Purushottam, after doing so much Tapasya, is speaking of going away. He has been here twelve years! SRI AUROBINDO: What Tapasya? If we give him complete freedom and control over things, he will perhaps stay. NIRODBARAN: He says he is helping The Mother in the work. SRI AUROBINDO: Helping only? I thought he was conducting the Ashram! NIRODBARAN: But won't these people one day realise the Divine? SRI AUROBINDO: Everyone will arrive at the Divine. Amal once asked The Mother if he would realise God. The Mother replied that he would, unless he did something idiotic and cut short his life. And that is just what he almost did!
8.30p.m. Nrodbaran read an article in Asia, an American paper, to Sri Aurobindo on himself and his Yoga. It was written by Swami Nikhilananda. NIRODBARAN: It is surprising that a Ramakrishna Mission Yogi should write on you. SRI AUROBINDO: It is, Nishtha (Miss Margaret Wilson) who arranged for its publication. He was a friend of hers before she came here. It is peculiar how they give an American turn to everything. NIRODBARAN: The Americans seem to be more open than the Europeans. Why? SRI AUROBINDO: They are a new nation and have no past tradition to bind them. France and Czechoslovakia are also open. Many from there are writing that they want to do Yoga. NIRODBARAN: Was Nishtha in communication with you for some time?
SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes. She was in touch with us for three or four years. She has very clear ideas about Yoga and she was practising it there. Page-34
At this point Dr.Manilal arrived. He heard the reference to Woodrow Wilson's daughter. DR. MANILAL: She must be disappointed because there was no Darshan in November. SRI AUROBINDO: No. She has taken it with the right Yogic attitude - unlike many. DR. MANILAL: How is it there are no Maharashtrian sadhaks here, in spite of your contact with Tilak and your long stay in Baroda? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it is strange. The cause may be that they are more vital in their nature. The talk then changed to the Supermind. DR. MANILAL: I hope we shall live to see the glorious day of the Supermind. When will it descend. Sir? SRI AUROBINDO (after a little silence): How can it descend? The nearer it comes, the greater becomes the resistance to it. DR. MANILAL: On the contrary, the Law of Gravitation should pull it down. SRI AUROBINDO: That Law does not apply to it, because of its tendency to levitation! And it is coming down against tremendous resistance. DR. MANILAL: Have you realised the Supermind?
SRI AUROBINDO: You know, I was talking to Nirodbaran about the tail of the Supermind. I know what the Supermind is. And the physical being has flashes and glimpses of it. I have been trying to supramentalise the descended Overmind. Not that the Supermind is not acting. It is doing so through the Overmind; and the Intuition and the other intermediate powers have come down. The Supermind is above the Overmind. (Sri Aurobindo put one hand over the other.) So one may mistake the latter for the former. I remember the day when people here claimed to have got the Supermind. I myself had made mistakes about it. I didn't know then about the planes. It was Vivekananda who, when he used to come to me during meditation in Alipore Jail, showed me the intuitive plane. For a month or so he gave instructions about intuition. Then afterwards I began to see the still higher planes. I am not satisfied with only a part of the Supermind in the Page-35
physical consciousness. I want to bring down the whole mass of it, pure, and that is an extremely difficult business. DR. MANILAL: We hear that there will be a selected number of people who will first receive the Supermind. SRI AUROBINDO (making a peculiar expression with his eyes): Selected by whom? DR. MANILAL: By the Supermind, Sir. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Oh, then that's for the Supermind to decide. Whatever is the truth will be done by it, for it is the Truth-Consciousness — and if things are established by it in the consciousness, your complaint about the disappearance of calm etc. will itself disappear, for they will be established by the Supermind. NIRODBARAN: Won't the descent of the Supermind make things easier for us? SRI AUROBINDO: It will do so for those who receive the Supermind, who are open to it. But its descent itself needs certain conditions. For example, if there were thirty or forty people ready, it would descend. NIRODBARAN: We hear you said that in 1934 the Supermind was ready to descend but not a single sadhak was found prepared, so it withdrew. And yet didn't you tell me once that the descent of the Supermind doesn't depend on the readiness of the sadhaks? SRI AUROBINDO: If none is ready to receive it, how will it manifest? But instead of thinking of Supermind, one should first open oneself to intuition. At this moment The Mother came and asked what we were talking about. SRI AUROBINDO: About intuition and other things. The Mother fell into meditation. We all joined in. At about 7,00 p.m. she left us. SRI AUROBINDO: Does anyone know about S? I am curious to know how, as he puts it, his blood comes out drop by drop from his body. He seems to have an Elizabethan turn of expression! Then, apropos of S and N, the topic of fear of death came up. They were known to cover up their bodies for fear of catching cold. Page-36
SRI AUROBINDO: At Cambridge we were discussing physical development. Then one fellow, in order to show how splendid his health was, began to take off his shirt and underwear, one after the another. We found that there were ten or twelve pieces of clothing on his body! NIRODBARAN: We must develop our consciousness in order to conquer death, mustn't we? People think that as soon as they have entered Ashram they have become immortal! SRI AUROBINDO: People think so because for a long time no death took place in the Ashram. Those who had died were either visitors or sadhaks who had gone away from here. At the beginning, people had a very strong faith, but as the numbers increased, the faith begin to diminish. However, why should one fear death? The soul is immortal and passes from one life and body to another. Besides, fear has no place in Yoga. NIRODBARAN: We fear because of our attachments. SRI AUROBINDO: One must have no attachments in Yoga. DR. MANILAL: How is fear to be conquered? SRI AUROBINDO: By mental strength, will and spiritual power. In my own case, whenever there was any fear, I used to do very thing I was afraid of, even if it brought the risk of a sudden death. Barin also had a lot of fear while he was carrying terrorist activities. But he too will compel himself to go on. When the death sentence was passed to him, he took it very cheerfully. Henry IV of France had a great physical fear, but by his will-power would force himself to rush into the thick of the battle and he became known as a great warrior. Napoleon and Caesar had no fear. Once when Caesar was fighting the forces of Pompey in Albania, his army was faring badly. He was at that time in Italy. He jumped into the sea, took a fisherman's boat and asked him to carry him to Albania. On the way a storm arose and the fisherman was mortally afraid. Then Caesar said, "Why do you fear? You are carrying the fortunes of Caesar." I remember a sadhak saying, under an attack of hicoughing, "I shall die if it goes on." I told him, "What does it matter if you die?" At once the hiccoughs stopped. Very often here fears and suggestions bring in the adverse forces which then catch hold of the person. By my blunt statement the sadhak realised his folly and perhaps didn't allow any more suggestions. DR. MANILAL: Is Barin still doing Yoga? Page-37 SRI AUROBINDO: I don't know. He used to do some sort of Yoga even before I began. He took up my Yoga only after coming to Pondicherry. In the Andamans also he was practising it. You know he was Lele's disciple. Once he took Lele to Calcutta to be among the young people of the Secret Society. I didn't know that they were revolutionaries. One day Barin took him into a garden where they were practising shooting. As soon as Lele saw it he understood the nature of the movement and asked Barin to give it up. Lele said that if Barin did not listen to him. Barin would fall into a ditch — and he did. NIRODBARAN: Barin, I heard, had a lot of experiences. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but mostly they were rather mental experiences. He gathered a lot of information from them. I heard that when he had begun Yoga he had an experience of Kamananda. Lele was surprised to hear about it, for he said that this experience comes usually at the end. It is a descent, like any other experience, but unless one's sex centre is sufficiently controlled it may have bad results due to the excitement produced. NIRODBARAN: Barin had great energy and capacity. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he had brilliance, but he was always narrow and limited. He wouldn't widen himself. (Sri Aurobindo showed the widening by a movement of his hands above his head) That's why his things won't last. For instance, he was a brilliant writer and he also composed devotional poetry, but, because of his limitedness, nothing of that will endure. He was an amusing conversationalist, he had some musical ability, he was good at revolutionary activity. He did well in all these matters, but nothing more. He was also a painter, but it did not come to much in spite of his exhibitions. NIRODBARAN: In his paper Dawn he began to write a biography of you. SRI AUROBINDO: I don't know about it. Did he publish a paper? I would be interested to see what he has written about me. DR. MANILAL: His paper stopped after a short time. NIRODBARAN: It was in this paper that he said you were the leader of the revolutionary movement. I once asked you whether it was true. SRI AUROBINDO: And what did I say?
NIRODBARAN : You wrote back, showing great surprise, that I didn't know what everyone knew. Page-38
SRI AUROBINDO: In fact it is not true. Barin does not give the correct account of things. I was neither the founder nor the leader. It was P. Mitra and Miss Ghosal who started it on the inspiration of Baron Okakura. They had already started it before I went to Bengal and when I was there I came to hear of it. I simply kept myself informed of their work. My idea was for an open armed revolution in the whole of India. What they did at that time was very childish-things like beating magistrates and so on. Later it turned into terrorism and dacoities, which were not at all my idea or intention. Bengalis are too emotional, want quick results, can't prepare through a long course of years. We wanted to give battle after awakening the spirit of the race through guerilla warfare, as in the Irish Sinn Fein. But at the present stage of military conditions such things are impossible and bound to fail. NIRODBARAN: Why did you not check the terrorist movement? SRI AUROBINDO: It is not wise to check things when they have taken a strong shape, for something good may come out of them. DR. MANILAL: Is it true that you did not appear for the riding test in your I.C.S.? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but they gave me another chance, and again I didn't appear. Then they rejected me. DR. MANILAL: Why did you appear at all for the I.C.S.? Was it on account of some intuition that you didn't come for the riding test? SRI AUROBINDO: Not at all. I knew nothing of Yoga at that time. I appeared for the I.C.S. because my father wanted it and I was too young to understand. Later I found out what sort of work it was and I had no interest in the administrative life. My interest was in poetry and literature and the study of languages and patriotic action. NIRODBARAN: We have heard that you and C. R. Das used. to make plans, while in England, for a revolution in India. SRI AUROBINDO: Not only C. R. Das but many others. Deshpande was one. When I went to Baroda from England I found out what the Congress was like at that time and I formed a strong contempt for it. Then I came into touch with Deshpande, Tilak, Madhavrao and others. Deshpande requested me to write something in the Indu Prakash. There I severely criticised the Page-39 Congress for its moderate policy. The articles were so fiery that M. G. Ranade, the great Maratha leader, asked the proprietor of the paper not to allow such seditious things to appear in his columns; otherwise he might be arrested and imprisoned. Deshpande approached me with this news and requested me to write something less violent. I then began to write about the philosophy of politics, leaving aside the practical part of politics. But I soon got disgusted with it. Later when I heard that Bipin Pal had started a paper, the Bande Mataram, I thought of the chance to work through it. NIRODBARAN: We hear that once the Maharaja of Baroda asked you to write a memorandum to the President about some financial trouble. But you refused to do it unless the Maharaja himself would hand it over to the President: the Dewan was a timid man and suppressed the memoranda written by you. SRI AUROBINDO: That's a legend. Of course, I wrote many memoranda for the Maharaja but along the lines he gave me. As I said, I was not interested in administrative work and soon I got the Maharaja to transfer me to the College. Along with Tilak, Madhavrao, Deshpande and Joshi, who became a Moderate later, I was planning to work on more extremist lines than the Congress. We brought Jatin Banerji from Bengal and got him admitted into the Baroda army. Our idea was to drive out the Moderates from the Congress and capture it.
As soon as I heard that a National College had been started in Bengal I found my opportunity and threw up the Baroda job and went to Calcutta as Principal. There I came into contact with Bipin Pal, who was editing the Bande Mataram. But its financial condition was precarious. When Pal was going on a tour he asked me to take up the paper. I asked Subodh Mullick and others to finance it. Then some people wanted to oust Pal and, when I was lying ill, they did it. They connected my name also with it. I called the sub-editor and gave him a severe thrashing — metaphorically, of course. Pal was a great orator and at that time his speeches were highly inspired, a sort of descent from above. Later on, his oratorical powers diminished. I remember he never used the word "independence" but always said "autonomy without British control"! When after the Barisal Conference we brought the peasants into the Movement, forty or fifty thousand of them used to gather to hear Pal. Suren Banerji cannot be compared to Pal. He has never Page-40
done anything like what Pal did. But Pal was more an orator than a leader. He had not the practical qualities of a leader. Then Shyam Sundar and some other people came in to help the Bande Mataram. Soon it drew the attention of a large number of people and became an all-India paper. The Punjab and Maharashtra joined the Movement. One day I called the Bengal leaders and said, "It is no use simply going on like this. We must capture the Congress and throw out the Moderate leaders from it." Then I proposed that we should follow Tilak as the all-India leader. They at once jumped at the idea. Tilak, who was not well known in the northern parts of India, accepted the leadership. He was a really great man and a rare disinterested one. DR. MANILAL: What do you think of his book on the Gita? Was it inspired? SRI AUROBINDO: I must say I haven't read it. DR. MANILAL: But you have reviewed it. SRI AUROBINDO: Then I must have reviewed it without reading it. (Loud laughter) Of course, I might have glanced through it, and I don't think it is inspired. It must be more a mental interpretation. Tilak had a brilliant mind. DR. MANILAL: When someone asked Tilak what he would do when India got Swaraj, he replied that he would again be a professor of mathematics. NIRODBARAN: We heard about one paper, Sandhya. SRI AUROBINDO: At that time three extremist papers were running in Bengal, the Jugantar, Sandhya and Bande Mataram. Brahmabandhav Upadhyaya, editor of the Sandhya, was another great man. He used to write so cleverly that the Government couldn't charge anything against him. As for the Bande Mataram, its financial condition was very bad and yet we carried on for two years. NIRODBARAN: Didn't the Government try to arrest you and the others?
SRI AUROBINDO: It couldn't; there was no law for doing it, and the press had more liberty than afterwards. Besides, there was nothing in the various papers that could be, directly charged against us. The Statesman used to complain that the Bande Mataram was reeking with sedition and yet was so cleverly written that one couldn't arrest the editor. Moreover, the names of the editors Page-41 were never published. So they could arrest only the printers. But as soon as one was arrested, another came to take his place. Later on, Upen Banerji, the sub-editor, published some correspondence for which I was arrested on a sedition charge. But as nothing could be proved I was acquitted. When I was arrested a second time and detained in Alipore Jail, the Bande Mataram was up against disastrous financial difficulties. Hence the editors wrote something very strong and the paper got suppressed. I started the Karmayogin some time after my second acquittal. Once I heard from Sister Nivedita that the Government wanted to prosecute and deport me. I wrote an article, "An Open Letter to My Countrymen". It prevented the prosecution. Soon after, I went away to Chandernagore. There some friends were thinking of sending me to France. I was wondering what to do next. Then I heard the Adesh, "Go to Pondicherry." DR. MANILAL: Why to Pondichery? SRI AUROBINDO: I could not question. It was Sri Krishna's Adesh. I had to obey. Later I found it was for the Ashram, for the Yogic work. I had to apply for a passport under a false name. The District Commissioner required a medical certificate by an English doctor. After a great deal of trouble I found one and went to his house. He told me that I spoke English remarkably well. I replied that I had been to England. NIRODBARAN: How could you agree to take a false name for the certificate? SRI AUROBINDO: If I .had given my real name I would have been arrested at once: With due respect to Gandhi's truth, I could not be so very precise here. You can't be a revolutionary otherwise. Accompanied by Bejoy, Moni and my brother-in-law, I arrived in Pondicherry but we had to assume false names for some time.
After Sri Aurobindo 's lunch at about 4.30 p.m. Nirodbaran was reading to him the memorial orations on a prominent figure in local politics and business. One person after another, beginning with the Governor, had praised him in superlative terms: "upright", "generous", "great friend of
Page-42 the poor" etc. Hearing this, Sri Aurobindo exclaimed, "Good Lord!", burst into laughter and remarked, "He ought to be canonised—Saint X! Such is public life! When Y died, all his life-long political enemies did the same thing." At about 7.00 the talk started again. It turned on homoeopathy and its difference from allopathy in regard to dosage and other matters. SRI AUROBINDO: Homoeopathy is nearer to Yoga. Allopathy is more mechanical. Homoeopathy deals with the physical personality all the symptoms put together and making up this personality. Allopathy goes by diagnosis which does not consider the personality. The action of homoeopathy is more subtle and dynamic. Savoor: Some Yogis go into Samadhi as a release from bodily pain and suffering. But there are others who don't do that and bear the pain. NIRODBARAN: Ramakrishna was one such. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Yogis can go into Samadhi and put an end to the Samskara. But I don't see the utility of going into Samadhi to escape from pain. On the other hand, when one decides to bear a disease, it seems to me in a way an acceptance of it. Ramakrishna once, when he was seriously ill, said to Keshab Sen that his body was breaking up under the stress of his spiritual development. But spiritual development need not always lead to disease. NIRODBARAN: If Ramakrishna had so willed it, he could have prevented the disease. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes, but he didn't believe in using his will to cure his disease or in praying to the Divine for a cure. NIRODBARAN: It is said that he got his cancer because of the sins of his disciples. SRI AUROBINDO: He said that himself and, if he did, it must be true. The Guru has to take up many things of the disciples. The Mother does that because she unites herself with the sadhaks and takes them up into herself. Of course, at the same time she also stops many things from happening in herself. A famous Yogi told a disciple, when the latter was becoming a Guru, "In addition to your own difficulties you will now take up those of others." No doubt, if one cuts the connection with the disciples, this can't Page-43 happen, but that means no work, and the sadhaks are left to themselves without support. Interchange of forces between persons is very common. Whenever two people meet, the interchange goes on. In that way one contracts a disease from another without any infection by germs. A disciple here was very conscious of what he was receiving from others, but he didn't care to think about what he was passing on to them! Even without meeting, there can be mutual effects. Even thought has power for good and evil. Bad thoughts may affect others. That's why Buddha used to emphasise right thinking. The need of company which people feel is really their need to interchange forces. What after all is the passion of man and woman for each other? Nothing but a vital interchange, a drawing in of forces from each other. Of course, the interchange or drawing in of forces takes place unconsciously and sometimes in spite of oneself. Thus when a person doesn't like another, he doesn't always know the reason, but it means that the vital beings of the two don't agree; the interchanges are unpleasant. You know Sheridan's lines: I do not like thee. Doctor Fell. The reason why I cannot tell. But at times, even when there is incompatibility, people come together. You see men and women quarrelling violently and yet unable to do without each other. That is because each has a need of the other's vital force. Woman has almost always such a need and that is what is called "being in love". Surely the need has been imposed on her by man. But Indian society established the relation between the husband and the wife in such a way that an equation might result. NIRODBARAN: But if one draws more than the other, there is a risk. SRI AUROBINDO: Certainly. If one receives more than one gives, bad consequences may be there for the one who gives more. Hindu astrology speaks of Rakshasa Yoga: a husband losing many wives one after another means an incompatibility so that instead of supporting them he is eating them up. NIRODBARAN: What are vampires? SRI AUROBINDO: Those who constantly draw from other people's vital beings without giving anything in return. NIRODBARAN: Are they so by nature or through possession? Page-44 |